Fantasy Football 2009-2011 [AF Elite]

[AYHJA]

I'm for 2 QB's as well man, the more the merrier...

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

the scales seem to be tipping - I'll ask Michael, and try to get a reply from erokero and TT's friend while I'm at it.

[erokero85]

Sorry I've not been around. Computer died, and forgot how to get back here. Daym hansel and grettle stole all my bread crumbs.

For the most part, I'd be against the 2 qb system like DL said. 8-10 "elite" qb's is a drastic over estimation of qb value. I'd say it's close to 3-4, but w/ the most of the rest, say 20-ish, all about even. Then there's the 5-6 Ryan Leaf, Brady Quinn, JaMarcus Russell's of the world, who absolutely stink and are just stealing nfl money.

That said, since there are only 8 teams, I wouldn't hate the addition. To me there would just be less strategy since you'd just draft 2 qb's then just set them as starters and waiver wire a guy when bye's crop up. Having to nitpick which non elite guy to start each week has a bigger effect thus makes it more interesting no? But if we just want to go ballsout for points, sure why not.

Now excuse me while I paruse the 24 or so pages to get caught up.... :oops:

[erokero85]

Oh, and just fyi, I'm pretty sure if you just hit reply from espn emails, the sender does not get said reply. It happened to me in my other league where I'm the LM.

And yeah, sorry I invited Dan (the bsbs team). But he's dropped out of the other league I know him from too. Maybe he retired or just cut down on leagues.

Oh, and I should be around more since it's football season. and I know where to go.... daym this interweb thingie is big

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

Welcome back, erokero.

On your points, pro and con, towards the 2 QB system, I don't know how to structure this response.
I agree with Uber's assessment that the entire reason for this coming to being is to maximize points, yes, but also potential.
If this were a 10-12 regular-sized league, then this wouldn't be so good an idea, as the starting QB pool gets even thinner with more teams added, but the reliable starting fantasy QB pool becomes ever-smaller.

To address the elite guys argument, it depends on your meaning of "elite", really. If fantasy owners had any say in it, they'd wager it was a real down-the-line horserace for who'd win last year's MVP, as it could have gone to either: Favre, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, and maybe some other stragglers (QBs only).

That said, Tony Romo had another fine and outstanding season, Brady was good enough to be ranked top ten (though he didn't live up to lofty expectations), and Matt Schaub only built upon what he accomplished in 2007-08, but in one season cumulatively, in 2009: he only led the league in Yards Passing, and tied with Peyton for the most 300 yard games. The difference between these guys in terms of fantasy points, though, without looking, I think is negligible, coming to maybe within 20-50 points from the number 1 passer and the QB #10. As I read somewhere else, that marginal difference in weekly scoring is what some others refer to as a "commodity". Not something you can do without, but the next best thing is usually good enough.

I do agree with the point that it does sort of quell a bit of the weekly strategy in deciding which QB starts or sits, though I think there's an added strategy in thinking where to draft your second starter, and whether or not he can maintain being an "every-week" sort of player.

If we do decide upon adding that 2nd QB spot, I think in order to more equalize the position so it's not just about the hypothetical team who has drafted both Brees and Peyton, the interception penalty should be -3 points, (I'm not sure how you guys would react if each INT were -4, but I'm guessing you'd be really against that) and each sack taken by your QB is either a half-point loss, or a 1 point loss each occurrence. That would lower someone like Rodgers from last season from being the overall top scorer, but wouldn't affect Peyton so much.


Thoughts are always welcome to this. (and you guys do know when the draft date is, right?)

[Drew]

Just drafted for my other league tonight. We have a 12-team league and do 2 QB's...and there was definitely some interesting moves made. For only 8 teams...I think we have to do it. Otherwise we're only using like 1/4th of the league's QBs. NO BUENO!

[erokero85]

Regardless of if we add the 2nd qb, I think sacks should be -0.5 pts if it's not already in the scoring. True many sacks are o-line problems, but most are due to qb's holding on to the ball trying for a bigger play and qb's should be penalized. But I suggest the -0.5 since like I said, not all are the qb's fault and the small penalty would adjust for that.

I would however not up the int's from -2 to -3 (and no way -4). Since mainly these are bad qb decisions it should be a bigger penalty, but a larger (-3 or -4) would only weaken the lower tier qb's while hardly effect the elite guys.

The other thing I would suggest is a reduction in td points from 6 to 5, but add the 40yd/50yd td bonus of +1/+2 (or +0.5/1). I don't think qb td's should be the same as skill position tds. Skill guys do a little more work imo, thus should get a bit more credit. Plus w/ the addition of the 2 qb system, qb td's would double that the td point reduction would help to balance out since most team td's come from the qb position. But they should get a bonus if they heave a 40+yd bomb, or execute a perfect slant-n-go to the house. Plus it helps an avg qb who has a great (or really fast) wr, like Matt Schaub or even Jason Campbell since you know Al is gonna call down for at least 1 bomb per drive....

so um, for sack penalty, against larger int penalty.

[Drew]

I'm for lowering the passing TD to 5, we do that in the league I'm in and it works out for a nice balance.

I don't agree at all with the sack penalty, and I think INT's are fine where they are.

[¡ñ±£¿®∆L Ф¶†ïς@п]

I'm for lowering the passing TD to 5, we do that in the league I'm in and it works out for a nice balance.

I don't agree at all with the sack penalty, and I think INT's are fine where they are.

I can work with the suggestions, but they will need at least others to hop on board with them to be installed.

Meaning: if you feel it is in the best of the league and "equalizing" the discernable level of play between QBs and the skill position players, then these changes could be lobbied, but again, since it's a small league, I think at 4-5 guys need to sign off on it, lest we lose them for failing to comprehend what we're trying to achieve.

The sack penalty (along with the -3 INT penalty) were offered by me as a hypothetical "limiter" if we do get to adding a second starter QB for this season (which might be official by week's end). It's so the QB position alone doesn't dicate whether or not one team wins or loses, each week, just based on the play of his QBs in that particular week. In other words, it's meant to de-empasize (I think) the total points scored by the two QBs, so that just those two players, whomever they are, don't consistently outscore the other skill positions combined (not including Flex and TE).

If we'd like a vote on the penalty of a half-point (-0.5) for each sack a QB takes, that's alright, and it might just pass.

But before that, I'd like to hear your take on whether or not you would prefer that the QB position, instead of having to pass for 25 yards for each point earned, it be reduced to just 20 yards passing = 1 pt ; and instead of a passing TD being 6 pts, it instead is reduced to the more traditional 4 pts. Interceptions would still be worth negative two points, and then we can decide on whether or not we add a sack penalty, or whether we introduce the "long bomb" TD bonuses again (this was in place last season, but only for the QB position, I noticed).

i.e.
Kurt Warner, in week 13 of last season (vs. Minn.) threw for 285 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT/Fum (+ 3 rushes, -1 yds ; 0 sack)
In our previous scoring system, (from last year, disregarding long TD bonus) Warner would have had a 29-pt day.
With the slight revision in review, (20 yds pass / 4 PassTD / -2 INT) this year, given same performance, the QB would have scored 14 points via total yards, plus another 12 due to TDs, making his total on the day: 26 pts.


It may not seem like much of a difference, but it does make one, by lowering the juggernauts that the elite QBs are, who pass for sometimes 3 times (or more) the number of touchdowns as the best running back in the league is able to accomplish. Instead of overvaluing the touchdown makers (Favre, Rodgers) this slight tweak rewards the more consistent total-yards passers (Peyton, Schaub)
.
I think the above is the most reasonable, and I'm having a hard time wondering why I didn't think of it sooner.

[Drew]

Well...let's have each thing up for vote.

QBs: 2

Sack penalty: None

INT: -2

Pass Yards: 25 per point

TD: 5 points

No long TD bonus....I don't even understand why you would have that?