Spiritual Paradox

A school of music that studies the rhythm of nature, a school of fashion that studies the elegance of the Universe, a school of design that studies the architecture of the ancients, a school of philosophy that studies the time-tested Truth.
Aemeth
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Spiritual Paradox

#1

Post by Aemeth »

In the West, we are obsessed with standardizing and defining, distinguishing and separating. You are either this or that. You cannot be both. You are either Christian or non-Christian, Liberal or Conservative, etc.

By why must it be like this? Does this reflect the human condition? No. Not that Eastern culture is "better" or anything like that, but perhaps we can learn something from our friends across the globe, who are much better at synchronizing their ideologies rather than holding a specific view all the time. Heck, in China, Mt. Tai is considered a religious catch-all for the Chinese people, offering Buddhist, Confucian, and Taoist temples in one place. Everyone visits all the temples, too, not just the one they like the most.

Some days, it is easy to trust in God. Other days the prayers feel pointless. But this does not have to be seen as a weakness. Perhaps, it is just honesty that reflects the broken, conflicted condition that is the human soul. Pretending to have it all figured out is just foolish. I can't speak for others, but personally, embracing the uncertainty that comes with spiritual development and pursuit has finally put me at rest with it all. Now, rather than feeling inadequate and hopeless, I fully appreciate the mysteries and glorious paradox that life offers every day.

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Sir Jig-A-Lot
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#2

Post by Sir Jig-A-Lot »

Aemeth wrote: I fully appreciate the mysteries and glorious paradox that life offers every day.
Indeedly.
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raum
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#3

Post by raum »

I am not sure you understand Mt. Tai's significance. It is national, and thus all religions want a piece. It is where the wu jing jen were practicing their mysteries. as for the synthesis of ideas, it is impure in china, and most everywhere else. It is stripped of its distinct essence. As for Mt. Tai, it is their "Mount Rushmore" and one of the oldest places of true importance in religious china. This is the phallic virulence of their nation; their Olympus. You can also buy a gameboy there and some bootleg atari games "number 1 u.s.a. game."

For example, look at the unification of the seven kingdoms, which required all but genocide to harmonize the Han ideas of civilization. They killed seven kingdoms to prevent diversity. Co-tolerance is a relatively new idea in China, and did not exist nearly as prominent before mao, and the advent of communism in China. Remember, before the early Elizabethan times, few people were ever allowed in in over 5,000 years. But see, Communism is about syncretic harmonizing - with a specific national goal in mind. Their harmony is born of being killed by the millions, for thousands of years.

As for the average Chinese person, they are not some mystical seeker... They don't concern themselves with such things. Ti'en ming, or divine providence is something only reserved for a select few out of billions. They work and hope to feed their family;maybe get the hell out of china, and if they can, they smoke and they drink. They don't need a personal spiritual path, such indulgence is a negative trait. to be so vain as to hope to comprehend the Universe! They have a Han synthesis to rely on; a merger of buddhism, taoism, and the laws of li, known as confucianism. Most people in china live in a state of mutual disinterest; aside for their families. That ancestor reverence and rich history is more about Mt. Tai. Their spiritual truth it is taught with political context and is tantamount to the Israelites worshipping in the temple for the prosperity of their nation. As for what is promoted there, The thing is the Tao is not properly represented, and then it is so emeshed with buddhism and chinese national socialism, it is actually just arbitrary mysticism. 'Pure Harmony" taoism or some other evangelical wishcraft is not Wu Tao Jia. The people who practice a pure form of authentic "pre=heaven" Taoism are hunted down like dogs and burned the same way most of the sacred books of the taoist canon were in the "unification era" of the wang dynasty. That is why they fled long ago. They visit those temples because it is their duty to, not their religious conviction. hell, you can pay someone to help you pray so your prayers will be louder with two voices. Also, christians are not welcome to set up shop there, btw.

Your sentiment is romantacized, but a nice one. but the fact is religions are more like languages than beliefs. no religion but christianity cares so much for "belief', mainly because "pista" was not comprehended accurately for so long. pista is "faith" - as in a man being faithful to his wife. it is loyalty, a loyalty that creates a conviction of purpose, not some magick power called "belief". and the "faith" of the syncretized chinese religions is openly dedicated to their nation, not a spiritual truth.

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Sir Jig-A-Lot
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#4

Post by Sir Jig-A-Lot »

Nice one ,raum. Ypu schooled me on a couple of things. Where have you been hiding,sir?
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shining2001uk
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#5

Post by shining2001uk »

very impressive knowledge of Chinese history.
I have to agree with your views on Chinese society. from my limited knowledge - i have a few chinese friends and have been a few times - diversity is not encouraged & thinking is very concrete.

as to original point, i think people need identity and that is why they like be one thing or another, Christian, democrat or whatever.

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melkior
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#6

Post by melkior »

It looks to me like it's a case of grass being greener on the other side. We might come in all shapes and sizes, but Homo Sapiens is still a single species with its similar characteristics and habits. Whatever happens here, happens there as well. As all religions have analogous events and traits, so do the cultures.

I'm not saying we haven't changed from that poor primate that came down from the trees, we have. I'm just not sure if that change was an improvement in the general sense.

Over the thousands of years we've existed in this form, we developed and discovered beautiful things. One of them is collecting and making catalogs. Amazing concept, damn useful when you're in a library. But it's also a pain when you don't know when to stop, and we certainly don't.

An average person has so many religions to choose from, and yet I find it hard to pick one. It's almost like picking a shoe. I want a comfy one, easy to wear, light, yet sturdy and keeping me safe. One that doesn't slip, but still one I can take off if I must. Or just feel like it. A shoe like that has to incorporate many styles and possibly be slightly worn to make it comfier.

But then comes the big problem. Where will I be sorted if others notice I'm wearing a shoe that's been worn? What catalog will get to collect me? Will others like my shoe?

15 000 years ago, humans killed each other for protection, dominance. Fighting over food or a partner. In other words - survival. I'm sure each of those intelligent, yet empty brains had its own idea of the world surrounding them. They had their own ideas about the stars above them, but they didn't kill each other over it.

But suddenly civilization appeared and now I can get killed if my Divine doesn't meet the Divine of the person wielding a weapon. Or for having a Divine at all.

My point? It's hard to believe when you get collected early on. But it's also easy to believe like your life depends on it. Just because it really might, not just in the spiritual way.

I don't think (completely ignoring raum's most enlightening history lesson) the Chinese have it figured out any more than people in the West do. I only think we'd like to believe they do.

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Aemeth
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#7

Post by Aemeth »

Addressing the posts in a LIFO manner...

Melklor, I agree that is is naive to assume Eastern culture is better just because it is different. I was not trying to portray that. I was just trying to emphasize how certain aspects of my life started to make sense once I studied and experienced a little bit of eastern philosophy and culture.

Shining, indeed, diversity is not encouraged. However, it will be really interesting to see how modern China responds to this cultural value in years to come. There is an interesting Frontline documentary that came out fairly recently examining the Western influence of capitalism and independent thought among the Chinese youth. It is almost like a rebellion from Cultural Revolution of the 1960s. I found it very interesting, but even more frightening.

Raum, it definitely isn't all butterflies and rainbows, as you pointed out. But man, don't ever tell me that the $.15 cent oriental flutes for sale along the Mt. can take away from the majesty of that place! Images are still burned in my mind. Regardless of the ideological or religious purity of the Mt. or its visitors these days, it is the most beautiful place I have had the privilege of visiting in my short time here on earth! Do you have any thoughts on my final paragraph of the original post?

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raum
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#8

Post by raum »

Heya Aemeth.

OK, you asked more for thoughts on your statement, and if anything you know me to be a cat who really thinks and reconciles his thoughts with his feelings before I even make an attempt to express my findings to anyone else. Contemplation is key to Awareness. So here is my answer.
Raum, it definitely isn't all butterflies and rainbows, as you pointed out. But man, don't ever tell me that the $.15 cent oriental flutes for sale along the Mt. can take away from the majesty of that place! Images are still burned in my mind. Regardless of the ideological or religious purity of the Mt. or its visitors these days, it is the most beautiful place I have had the privilege of visiting in my short time here on earth! Do you have any thoughts on my final paragraph of the original post?
Actually, the charm of those flutes was for me part of their majesty. To me the human desire to quantify the sacred and to monetize it is a trait I consider endearing. I am not saying I like charlatans who money-grub. I look at it more liek it was, as I remember... Those flutes are there for people who want to use the pentatonic scale of their notes to CELEBRATE the feeling of majesty. They are also talismans in Feung Shui, and are like penny whistles from a amusement park where the gods go to play.

They are as sacred as the beads and coins of mardi gras, which btw, symbolize the riches of heaven in which everyone is apartaker if they only ask, shall they recieve. I have no less respect fof the people in my home state making a meager living, or the native American selling the mosiacs of his people. THESE can be sacred, or at least special.

The idea of the reed being carried down from the mountain invokes the idea of at once Prometheus and also Syrinx, the nymph Pan pursued who became the reed be hade into his flute.

But here is my point, most Chinese people who are going there are actually not going there for religious reasons. They are going there for reason of self-interest. Few are those who see its Mystery and Majesty - they are there with the same motivation as the Patriotic Person praying for Amierica to rise victorious in its conflicts, and praying that their kids get a good job. Hell, alot of them are networking to make sure those things happen. Those visits became almost mandatory in Mao's china for kids as they were forced to destroy elements of western invasion. My point is the reason China seems so harmonious, is they kill and destroy any variances that emerge. or they exile them. They have done this on and off since centuries B.C. Read about the unification of the 7 kingdoms and see why the illusions of diversity exist in China... it is because China is created of 7 kingdoms, many of which had little in common. But the truly and habitually kill ouytside influence on their population and culture.


In fact, EVERY country not ruled by a Anglo Caucasian cultural majority PRESERVES itself as a majority. We western cultures, however motivated by guilt and humanistic pretension, demand we melt our cultural cores with diverse and dense immigrations which are never forced to truly integrate and synergize. We, being every Anglo-Caucasian government majority. And for us to try and even suppose we keep a majority is considered tyrranical, though every other nation does so with not so much as a nod from the U.N.

(Note, I include Black Europeans and Americans in the Anglo Caucasian culture, though they have obvious African ancestry. It is a cultural assignment, because frankly, most would not ever assimilate back into a African culture; if only because they would have to grow a willingness to accept slavery as a human condition. I regard this as an indoctrination and do not wish to strip them of their own indivual identies. But the notion of African American is a not a factor for me. I also regard Blacks as a HUGE contributing part of the modern Anglo Caucasian culture, and any who don't are foolish or racist.)

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Aemeth
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#9

Post by Aemeth »

Well said my friend :)

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AYHJA
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Re: Spiritual Paradox

#10

Post by AYHJA »

^ HFS :O ^

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